Bless Online - Paymodel

Dokanix wrote:

Noone is having issues with B2P games. They are like cheaper P2P games.

Actually the way B2P is handled a majority of the time is how F2P is handled due to them needing to make money after everyone that is going to play buys the game that one time. They go about making cash shops and, again, a majority of the time there are items that tend to be pay to win. Guild Wars 2 does it in a since that you can buy gems with real cash and trade those gems in for gold. I say once again as well that when cash shops are introduced much of the money the company gets goes to making content for the cash shop instead of actual content for the game thus end game comes to a stop. Cash shops is what will destroy MMO's, not P2P.

You are wrong Yahdo, GW2 isn't P2W. Yes, you can trade Gems for gold but you can trade gold for gems!! You can buy ALL the items on the cash shop just spending Gold in the game, 0 real money, it cost? of course but it isn't impossible cause i bought characters slots, Dyes and more things that are Cash Shop exclusive just with gold and that kind of trade: Gems for gold and gold for gems are just amazing for me cause you don't need waste more real money just you spent to buy the game. Sorry for my English cause i don't know speak it properly xD

You speak far better English than I speak anything else, lol. No need to apologize for only being 97% fluent in a second language! Instead, brag about it.

Yup, I don't know why so many people want it to be subscribtion based. There aren't enough people to keep this game alive by paying monthly.

at least paysafe mode could be very comfortable

Dokanix wrote:

Yup, I don't know why so many people want it to be subscribtion based. There aren't enough people to keep this game alive by paying monthly.

Exactly. And just like any MMO, it will become popular later on and then more people will get into it and if it's B2P or even the multiple servers, they'll be making a decent amount of money, compared to the small amount of people now subscribing to it (and subscriptions are a turn off, last time I checked, so it won't bring in that many more new people).

B2P or F2P is the way to go for sure.

Dokanix wrote:

Yup, I don't know why so many people want it to be subscribtion based. There aren't enough people to keep this game alive by paying monthly.

That is not something we can say atm.

You don't need that many subs to keep a game running. Look at FFXI. They drop content all the time and they are likely sitting at about 100-200K subs.

While I prefer the P2P model, F2P with a sub is also a good way to go.

Not followed GW2 so not sure about B2P, but I wonder if it would be an issue for new IPs. This is also obviously an issue with P2P as well.

Anyway hope they don't go pure F2P. Yet to find an MMORG that was not crap when using this model.

Pyrolight wrote:

That is not something we can say atm.

You don't need that many subs to keep a game running. Look at FFXI. They drop content all the time and they are likely sitting at about 100-200K subs.

While I prefer the P2P model, F2P with a sub is also a good way to go.

Pure F2P usually is crap.

Not followed GW2 so not sure about B2P, but I wonder if it would be an issue for new IPs.

I'm tellin' ya', subscription/P2P is not gonna work out too well in this case.

There's a slim chance, but I know I probably will quit Bless eventually cause I'm not paying out my wallet every month for a game.
Besides, I don't think bless is at the 100k - 200k yet anywho. Probably 50 - 80k. I don't see many people talking about or even knowing about Bless.

I'd buy it. Heck, if it were the price of Call of Duty and the likes I'd buy it (assuming all the stuff people want fixed is fixed by time it releases).

But F2P would bring the P2W into the game and subscription is gonna turn people the other way.

Man, (or girl) Final Fantasy is a well known franchise - it has a lot of fans and it's not a problem for them to get people to play this game.
And now look at Bless. Noone heard about it, because it's a new game.

Well, more of a proto-game at the moment.

Yeah, but you get my point.

I refuse to get anything that doesn't come with a cookie!

Emarcii wrote:

I don't see many people talking about or even knowing about Bless.

But F2P would bring the P2W into the game and subscription is gonna turn people the other way.

That's the thing, Bless is still a long way off, I am thinking 2 years at least for the west so not many knowing about it is not too surprising. When a western publisher shows up, I suspect we will see a lot more people take a look.

F2P rarely has actual P2W in the western market. Look at archeage. People scream P2W for some of the items but none actually are P2W. F2P, Patron, and cash shop users all will end up with the exact same skills levels/gear levels eventually. Patron and cash shop users (labour pots) will just get there faster.

I honestly can't think of a F2P game off the top of my head, in recent memory, that was actually P2W. Usually they just focus too much on the fluff content in the shops and not enough on game.

Dokanix wrote:

Man, (or girl) Final Fantasy is a well known franchise - it has a lot of fans and it's not a problem for them to get people to play this game.
And now look at Bless. Noone heard about it, because it's a new game.

Man, too lazy to change my avatar.

Anyway well known yes, but FFXI is now 12 years old and back in the day had one of the most brutal levelling designs out there. Honestly it was the king of grind. The name helps a lot but will only take you so far. The reason people still play is that the game has really good "bones", a phenomenal story, and they made getting into it easier.

Also look at ESO and SWTOR both came from massive IPs and both are/were terrible and dropped subs like crazy.

Finally look at Wildstar. It is doing decently and it is a new IP.

While having a known IP helps, what will really matter is how the game plays and how fast/good content delivery is. Assuming we get Bless well after Korea there should be a lot more content.

Basically being a new game can be an issue, it all depends if the content and marketing are done well. As it stands, Bless is not even on anyones radar because it is still so early in development. Don't expect much hype pre western publisher.

Yeah, but Wildstar is made by people that left Blizzard.

Pyrolight wrote:

Emarcii wrote:

I don't see many people talking about or even knowing about Bless.

But F2P would bring the P2W into the game and subscription is gonna turn people the other way.

That's the thing, Bless is still a long way off, I am thinking 2 years at least for the west so not many knowing about it is not too surprising. When a western publisher shows up, I suspect we will see a lot more people take a look.

F2P rarely has actual P2W in the western market. Look at archeage. People scream P2W for some of the items but none actually are P2W. F2P, Patron, and cash shop users all will end up with the exact same skills levels/gear levels eventually. Patron and cash shop users (labour pots) will just get there faster.

I honestly can't think of a F2P game off the top of my head, in recent memory, that was actually P2W. Usually they just focus too much on the fluff content in the shops and not enough on game.

Not in recent games no. I like to think that the company's who were using F2P w/ P2W as quick cash grabs are starting to see that they can't pull that **** anymore and get away with it. People are done dealing with that trash. But they successfully ruined the paymodel's image for every future F2P MMORPG game to come out. People have every right to be sick of the F2P model.

I actually find it funny that people have created a list (and debated the games on it) of P2W's in the semi-recent past and present: forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2588267

Their missing two I've had personal experience with: R.O.D.E (Dead) and Digimon Masters Online, so it's by no means a complete list either. I would never say that a good number of P2W's have not come to the West.

Pyrolight wrote:

People scream P2W for some of the items but none actually are P2W. F2P, Patron, and cash shop users all will end up with the exact same skills levels/gear levels eventually. Patron and cash shop users (labour pots) will just get there faster.

I must say that there is no completely agreed upon definition of P2W.

For some players that is exactly what P2W is, I am paying RL money to win. "When a player can get a permanent or semi-permanent advantage over other players at the cost of real life funds."- YT Dontain. If I bought an item for $10 that you would not be able to get unless you ran a Vet dungeon over and over and over, that is P2W. It doesn't matter if you "can" get the item that's in the cash shop. Ex: Buying a Legendary Greatsword in the CS that you can only get after spending 60 hours doing Vet raids. Perhaps you have a different view on what P2W is?

Dokanix wrote:

Yeah, but Wildstar is made by people that left Blizzard.

Dammit, lost it twice, time to be brief.

I don't see this as really much of anything.

Game design and Marketing are the two biggest factors for a successful MMORPG. Who you have working on it (specific company) is only a minor factor.

Red wrote:

Not in recent games no. I like to think that the company's who were using F2P w/ P2W as quick cash grabs are starting to see that they can't pull that **** anymore and get away with it. People are done dealing with that trash. But they successfully ruined the paymodel's image for every future F2P MMORPG game to come out. People have every right to be sick of the F2P model.

I actually find it funny that people have created a list (and debated the games on it) of P2W's in the semi-recent past and present: forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2588267

Their missing two I've had personal experience with: R.O.D.E (Dead) and Digimon Masters Online, so it's by no means a complete list either. I would never say that a good number of P2W's have not come to the West.

That is the thing, P2W is accepted in the Eastern MMO market and less accepted here. In that list only a few MMORPGs are P2W and of those, I don't think P2W appeared until the games were mostly dead anyway, but I could be wrong.

Other types of MMOS tend to blur the lines a lot more.

I must say that there is no completely agreed upon definition of P2W.

But for most that is exactly what P2W is, I am paying RL money to win. "When a player can get a permanent or semi-permanent advantage over other players at the cost of real life funds."- YT Dontain. If I bought an item for $10 that you would not be able to get unless you ran a Vet dungeon over and over and over, that is P2W. It doesn't matter if you "can" get the item that's in the cash shop. Ex: Buying a Legendary Greatsword in the CS that you can only get after spending 60 hours doing Vet raids. Perhaps you have a different view on what P2W is, but that is the generally accepted definition of P2W.

Even saying that that definition is generally accepted is a bit subjective. That being said I agree that is a nice cutoff to avoid to many arguments.

As for me, I base P2W off the original example(s).

I first heard the term used to describe an Asian F2P MMO in the western market that had added cash shop armour that basically gave you a huge advantage over anyone who didn't buy it. There was no gear that you could get via PvE or PvP under and circumstances that could match it. I cannot recall the name of the game.

As I say for me that is P2W, the example you gave would not be, but I sure as hell would not play a game like that either.

I've been in a few P2W games - where you both A) gain a large advantage from cash shop items and B) require cash shop items to be barely competitive in gameplay ... with all of the PVP needing a vast investiture of either real money or ridiculous in-game gold to avoid being one-shot - and it's usually not so much the game ... as it is the developer that runs them into the ground.

Aeria Games has - thank Cthulhu! - gone on to mobile games only, so they're not going to be in the running for any more games. If AG could squeeze a penny out of a dying player's hands they'd do it gleefully. But most of their games didn't start out P2W, they just got that way as soon as the shine started to wear off.

Pyrolight wrote:

Even saying that that definition is generally accepted is a bit subjective. That being said I agree that is a nice cutoff to avoid to many arguments.

As for me, I base P2W off the original example(s).

I first heard the term used to describe an Asian F2P MMO in the western market that had added cash shop armour that basically gave you a huge advantage over anyone who didn't buy it. There was no gear that you could get via PvE or PvP under and circumstances that could match it. I cannot recall the name of the game.

As I say for me that is P2W, the example you gave would not be, but I sure as hell would not play a game like that either.

I can agree and see where your coming from. In fact, I swing more on your side then I do the other, and that made creating that paragraph extremely difficult... I should not have used "many", maybe 'in my opinion', or 'some' instead; and for that I apologize Pyrolight, upon looking at it later I definitely regret how I worded the entire post. I have now edited it, I hope I did not offend or come off as arrogant.

I only based my opinion that CS's having rare In-game items are being generally viewed as P2W after spending a good hour or so gathering as many opinions as I could. Both from acquaintances, multiple threads and youtube videos pulled up on a google search. But, it was quite a mixed bag as you might imagine, some only viewed certain stat boosts to be P2W, ect.

I really do think that we are on the right track now with most F2P games. At least in terms of CS items, content updates are another subject.

Game design and Marketing are the two biggest factors for a successful MMORPG. Who you have working on it (specific company) is only a minor factor.

You got to be kiding me... "Who you have working on it" is part of marketing, most players bought Wildstar because of Blizzard.