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Dungeons and raiding.

    • Dungeons and raiding.

      Has there been any information on this? I know on the original site before the makeover, they said somthing about epic endgame raids. I'm really hoping they are talking about the traditional large-scale raids I.E 10+ players (hopefully at least 20+) working together in an instanced area to take down scripted encounters. Also, if this has been confirmed have they elaborated on the difficulty? I'm curious if the endgame raiding will be more casual then hardcore or vise versa.

    • I would assume there is a "Casual" mode and then a "Hero/Heroic" mode? They mentioned adding some sort of "Hero Quest" system, so it wouldn't be as far fetch to assume that they would apply that logic into raids.

    • I really hope, that the epic endgame raids will NOT be instanced. Actually as I see it, best option is to have instanced dungeons for low/mid equip and non-instanced (requireing PVP) for top equip.
      Look at Tera's success with full instanced bosses - the whole end-game is screwed up.

    • @MerlinBG I would have to disagree, having an instanced raid has been highly successful in multitude of games for the "casual" player. In fact, I don't see any problems with having instanced PvE Raids. As long as Bless keeps adding endgame content, and not forsake it like GW2 did; then I think instanced raids would be the best approach.

    • Well, there is Tera - provides exactly this, even with good raid mechanics. Is not enough in long term - pretty fast you get pro in all instances and from interesting and challenging they become bust boring.
      For the casual player - I agree, but this is exactly what I wrote too: "instanced dungeons for low/mid equip and non-instanced (requireing PVP) for top equip".

    • Is not enough in long term - pretty fast you get pro in all instances and from interesting and challenging they become bust boring.


      That's why they should keep on adding new content. I just wonder how fun those raids are going to be, if it's just a faceroll with good items it will be as you say, boring.

    • Dokanix wrote:


      That's why they should keep on adding new content. I just wonder how fun those raids are going to be, if it's just a faceroll with good items it will be as you say, boring.

      New content is good, but can not replace end-game - pvp for epic bosses, castle sieges, character progression, etc.
      About how much fun are the raids - I am not sure, if you mean in Tera (the new ones) or in Bless - in Tera the raids are quite well done - having own mechanics, it's not just tank & spank. I can only hope, that Bless will not do it at least that good, if not better.

    • I don't know about TERA's endgame, but you should see World of Warcraft raiding. Every encounter there is diffrent and really fun, for example there is Heigan (name of boss), he spawns some green toxins from his floor in diffrent parts of his room and you have to keep on running and dodging this. I can't really explain this but if you are curious here is what it looks like:
      Display Spoiler

      I can't think of any tank & spank encounter. there are some Bosses where specific role like DPS has nothing to do but keep on damaging enemies, but other roles have some uncommon task.
      I am downloading TERA right now so maybe I will play a little before Bless gets OBT. A MMO without good raiding sadly doesn't exist for me as it is most important thing in the game (not including PvP for some).

    • Just a small correction in the above statement: "I don't know about TERA's endgame...": Tera has no end-game. Sadly. That's why I am here, waiting for Bless and Black Desert.

      However, it offers amazing fight mechanics and the raids are also quite amusing, having in mind, that they have own boss mechanics and no matter how strong your party is, if you don't know the mechanics - you will easily wipe. Which is quite ok, I think you will have fun for quite some time. Not to forget - tomorrow there will be a patch with 4 more new instances, new gear, etc. Yey.

    • Agreed, it's amazing :) Even better - some instances are so hard, that they are still interesting even for quite experienced party.
      Having in mind the superior fight mechanics (both pvp and pve) and the good graphics, Tera could be the perfect game, if only it had end-game.

    • Fight mechanics are only a small solution to a big problem. The real problem is that Bless is going to have to adapt to the new standards of raiding in this generation. Sure, the boss mechanics offer enjoyment, but I think players want a ever-changing boss fight environment. The way you kill the boss today, might change tomorrow.

    • Well... I don't see how this might work.

      I mean - if some mechanics can wipe the party, you can not expect those to be infinite number, otherwise you will never be able to master them and to complete the boss.

      So far i know how raids work in:
      Lineage 2 (static, no mechanics at all, just tank & spank)
      Tera (quite dynamic, with semi-dynamic boss mechanics).

      Second one - Tera - works quite well: the boss mechanics are a limited number, but some of them appear randomly, some appear at specific intervals. One gets used to the mechanic and it gets boring in time, but it takes much much longer, than the ordinarly tank & spank raiding.

    • Bless did mention that the results of what you do in the game, may have a result in future events. Maybe that doesn't apply to raid bosses, I don't know. But I would assume a slight change since Raid Bosses play a significant role in story development.


    • MerlinBG wrote:

      Well... I don't see how this might work.

      I mean - if some mechanics can wipe the party, you can not expect those to be infinite number, otherwise you will never be able to master them and to complete the boss.

      There doesn't need to be an infinite number of wipe mechanics. The easiest way to have ever-changing boss mechanics would be a random generation of abilities among a set of abilities the boss can have. Then you break them into categories to make sure the boss doesn't end up with a combination of abilities that's impossible to overcome. If a category gets a wipe mechanic rolled, then you cannot have any more wipe mechanics in other categories (or no more than another one or two mechanics). WoW did that years ago. No reason why it cannot be done now.

      Or you have a system like Ryzom where monsters learned to fight players depending on what the players did. If the player used a certain ability to have an easier time killling a monster, the next monster in that family will counter that ability when the player fights it, forcing the player to find a different strategy.

    • Shiverlynn wrote:


      There doesn't need to be an infinite number of wipe mechanics. The easiest way to have ever-changing boss mechanics would be a random generation of abilities among a set of abilities the boss can have. Then you break them into categories to make sure the boss doesn't end up with a combination of abilities that's impossible to overcome. If a category gets a wipe mechanic rolled, then you cannot have any more wipe mechanics in other categories (or no more than another one or two mechanics). WoW did that years ago. No reason why it cannot be done now.

      Or you have a system like Ryzom where monsters learned to fight players depending on what the players did. If the player used a certain ability to have an easier time killling a monster, the next monster in that family will counter that ability when the player fights it, forcing the player to find a different strategy.


      As sad - I only know how it works in L2 and Tera, no idea about WoW, but it sounds interesting :)

      Hm... I am not sure about those thing with the learning monsters... mixed feelings. On one side - sounds ok... on other - how the other monsters learn, if there are no survivors to tell. And if the other monsters "see it", then why is it restricted to monster families...

    • Well it doesn't work that way in WoW usually, only a few fights have this random mechanic generation. It was just a suggestion to solve the problem of static encounters.

      Monsters learning the way players fight could be improved, I personally like the base idea. We could also have it the other way around to make it more realistic, if a monster succeeds in killing a player, they'll be more likely to use the abilities that led to the player's death in the next fight. As to why monster families, simply because different monsters use different abilities to fight so players also use different strategies to overcome them. If all monsters in the entire game shared the same "experience pool" a lot of ability combinations would make no sense. Though I'm no programmer so I can't really say anything about that.
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