Adversting (Guests only)

Some questions about classes

  • So Bless online is going to have EU server soon, im looking forward to this game, but the hardest part in mmorpgs for me is to choose class.
    I played some mmorpg games before and i had very bad experience as a melee class. It was harder to do dps as a melee sometimes, because bosses usually had melee attacks only, and for ranged it was much easier to survive or dps.
    I have questions for people that already played this game.
    So, first question is, are bosses/mobs in this game prefer to punish melee only?
    2nd question, what classes do you want the most in your party? Or maybe there is classes that necessary to have in dungeon party?

    3rd question... is there any class that especially good for gold/items farm?

  • So Bless online is going to have EU server soon, im looking forward to this game, but the hardest part in mmorpgs for me is to choose class.
    I played some mmorpg games before and i had very bad experience as a melee class. It was harder to do dps as a melee sometimes, because bosses usually had melee attacks only, and for ranged it was much easier to survive or dps.
    I have questions for people that already played this game.
    So, first question is, are bosses/mobs in this game prefer to punish melee only?
    2nd question, what classes do you want the most in your party? Or maybe there is classes that necessary to have in dungeon party?

    3rd question... is there any class that especially good for gold/items farm?

    The people who have played the KR/JP/RU versions have no idea how the new version is going to be. They have made quite a few Core changes. If you play EA or day 1 release you will be learning the answers to all of your questions right along with all of us. It's going to be exciting.

  • The people who have played the KR/JP/RU versions have no idea how the new version is going to be. They have made quite a few Core changes. If you play EA or day 1 release you will be learning the answers to all of your questions right along with all of us. It's going to be exciting.

    That's a pretty broad statement to make. Do you really think it's going to be that different on day 1? They haven't had much time to do anything besides localize it, be realistic. I am expecting a very similar game to JP and for it to evolve over time. It's better that they respond to the Western community directly rather than base it on assumptions.

  • Adversting (Guests only)

  • I am being realistic. The combat system has been overhauled, which is a big reason Bless has been delayed. The devs have said that. The other versions have tab target, mash abilities. The steam release is using more action based rhythmic combat with a combo system.




    (Source article: here)

    Also, it's plainly stated in the FAQ that everyone seems to not know exists.

    FAQ wrote:

    Rhythmic Combat

    Players need to pick two stance skills out of six, as well as four general skills that will go well with their class. Using these skills in combos during combat will lead to extra effects (1. Select a stance, 2. Use your starting skill 3. Use a skill combo).

    In combat, there is more action and it has gotten more difficult due to the new dynamic combo system. Depending on how good a player is at making combos, they can bring out the full potential of their class.

  • While there has been some wonderful (and accurate) information dropped here, the questions you asked still haven't been explicitly answered.

    So, first question is, are bosses/mobs in this game prefer to punish melee only?

    Bless is a game in which players are asked to group up for PvE and PvP content, be it instanced (E.g. dungeons and arenas) or open world. If for whatever reason you are playing alone you will find some content to be harder to solo as a melee class; however, if you play a ranged class and fail to initially kite the mobs you are fighting you will struggle. If you think you will be a solo player during the leveling process I recommend you play either an archer (great single target and burst damage) or a mage (great AoE with some CC and burst). This isn't because the content is harder when you are melee, but rather these classes are - in my experience - the easiest to level with when playing alone.


    When you reach late game content and dungeons in general there are bosses and mobs that punish solo players, poorly geared players, and uncoordinated groups. Bosses have AoE attacks that melee players must watch out for if they aren't cancelled (and not all can be) a group with with competent players will be able to position themselves to circumvent the majority of the threat these attacks pose to the party. In other words, the Bless systems that exist in JP and KR only punish melee players more than ranged players if they fail to respond to the mechanics they must respond to, additionally, there are mechanics which ranged players are better suited to handling and failing to respond to these will cause problems as well.


    So no, the game really doesn't prefer to punish melee over ranged, it is just a natural byproduct of cleave attacks and short-ranged AoEs that use the boss as the attacks epicenter. As stated before, melee solo players will struggle with these attacks more as will melee players who are unfamiliar to the content they are currently exploring.

    2nd question, what classes do you want the most in your party? Or maybe there is classes that necessary to have in dungeon party

    As Bless uses the trinity system, the average party of five players will require a healer. As the mystic won't be available at launch, each serious party will have at least one Paladin with some groups having two or even three (although I don't recommend having more than two). Additionally, due to the trinity system, each group will require either a Paladin, Berserker, or Guardian to serve as their primary tank (this is why you can see groups with multiple Paladins). While Guardians have the easiest time holding aggro they lack any kind of meaningful damage, Berserkers on the other hand, deal more damage while tanking but are less durable and can struggle with keeping aggro, Paladins who tank are between the two, they deal moderate damage, can hold aggro for some time, and can survive on their own for a fair bit as well.


    With this in mind it becomes clear that the class that will be in the highest demand once EA hits is the Paladin. Historically speaking healing and tank classes are in the highest demand in any MMO even though they make up the smallest percentage of a 5 man group (20% heal 20% tank 60% dps) taking these numbers into consideration, at least 1 in every ~7.5 players (not everybody will be online, max level, and looking to do dungeons at once) will need to play a heal based Paladin for there to be healthy late-game scene with competitive groups in both PvE and PvP. If we look beyond EA, people always like seeing Mystics as they are the games other healing class and while the two cover two different sides of the healing spectrum and therefore are better in different scenarios they are both nice to have in groups.


    Outside of healers different classes have different merits, the four party slots that are not devoted to healers typically consist of three DPS players and one tank, with seven eventual classes (eight with WL) a few will always be missing. Ultimately, most content is doable as long as you have the following:

    • A tank (either a Guardian, Berserker, or Paladin)
    • A healer (either a Paladin or Mystic)
    • A source of AoE damage (Berserker who isn't tanking or a mage)
    • A source of single target damage (Assassin or Ranger)

    Assuming your party is able to check off everything on this small and manageable list you will be fine for the majority of content. You also need to know that different classes are able to shine in different scenarios, as are different builds, also player skill is very important. I would rather be in a group of good coordinated players with a slightly bizarre party than be in a group of bad players with a great party.

    3rd question... is there any class that especially good for gold/items farm?

    In Bless the majority of the good gear will come from dungeons, elite mobs, crafting, and PvP. As the majority of the best gear comes from late game (unsoloable) content, there really isn't a class that is the "best" at farming for gold and or items. It is instead better an investment to get good at the class you play and the game as a whole: the gold and items will naturally come as part of that process. Therefore, I can't tell you what class is the best for farming items in the late game as there really isn't one. The rate at which you get usable items is decided by how often you play, your individual skill, the skill of those around you, your communication with those around you, and some luck.


    For the leveling process, it isn't even worth farming gold and items then. Any items you farm for will be useless in a few hours of playtime anyways and gold really isn't important until the late game either. Honestly, you will end up wasting more time and potential resources by farming for gold and items in the early - mid game than you would have if you just focused on leveling instead.


    Hope this answered some of your questions.

    Congratulations!

    You just read another wall of text!:thumbup:


    Formatting may be strange for some time, it is hard to type with a broken wrist...

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Tycon: Formatting - will edit again when I am actually able to focus on grammar. ().

  • That's a pretty broad statement to make. Do you really think it's going to be that different on day 1? They haven't had much time to do anything besides localize it, be realistic. I am expecting a very similar game to JP and for it to evolve over time. It's better that they respond to the Western community directly rather than base it on assumptions.

    I think you are exactly right Pen. They arent reinventing the game, just changing the combat mechanic to a more streamlined style.

  • Adversting (Guests only)

  • It's not the only reason it's been delayed. This game struggled immensely in the East. They were genuinely worried about pushing it out in the West, even before they decided to do another combat reboot. Let me remind you that the only differences from the original combat system and the more recent one was merely an increase in action speed, hardly anything that would be considered a massive reboot, yet they sold it as just that. In addition localization was a concern of theirs as well. I'm sure they are aware of how poorly localized some games are and are trying to avoid that pitfall. Furthermore even if combat is being changed, that doesn't discount the people who played KR or JP. The overall game experience won't change so their previous history with the game will be far from irrelevant as you had claimed.

  • The article I linked (specifically the screen cap I provided), states, quite directly, that the main reason for delays was the combat system. Also, they have known for a long time that they wanted to bring the game "west", even before the troubles with RU shutting down, KR merging, release for JP, etc. Regarding the "mere increase in action speed" that was part of the changes for the other versions, including a few targeting changes.

    The interviews about the combat system in the steam release talk about core changes, new combo system and rhythmic combat. Quite large changes from traditional tab targeting or the faux action combat that was available. You are speaking about the new combat system without seeing it or acknowledging what has already been said by Neowiz, which is pure conjecture. I have been talking about what I've seen the developers saying, passing on the information.

    Like this quote here is a really good example:


    "One of the biggest new features players will find is localization, including a full voice over for English and a new combat system will allow players to have their own combat styles and combat mode even if they wear the same equipment and have the same level. This new combat system will debut with EA for the first time." (source article)



    Kind of shoots down a lot of what you and others are saying about the changes not being that big.

  • I don't want to derail this thread any further so I will try to put this little debate down right here.


    While the changes coming to the combat system are undeniably large in scale we know nothing about it other than the fact that is is: a large scale change of unknown magnitude that will only directly change two parts of the game at most. Additionally, we know that it is only a change to abilities through the combo system, skill tree, and rhythmic combat it goes no further. This means that things such as class identity will remain largely the same as the only thing that is being changed is combat and skill progression. Paladins most likely won't start out DPSing Assassins and you won't see Mages tanking next to guardians other aspects of the game such as crafting, leveling, pets, mounts, and even the world map won't be seeing any meaningful changes before EA. Since the changes are only occurring to one system, veteran players are still very much able to share valid and relevant information with others. If I didn't play the game I would have been unable to give the OP a satisfying answer and guilds would be unable to plan content rushes and guides for their players.


    Lets say that the changes to the combat system and skill trees end up being both large and meaningful, they truly end up making the game different and allow players to create their own builds and react to what is going on around them. In this scenario, veteran players once again have a leg up over new players, Why? Simply because they are already more familiar with the game than other players are, they already know boss rotations, AoE radii, efficient farming routes etc and don't need to focus on learning these parts of the game, instead allowing them to focus on these new systems entirely. Furthermore, many experienced players are already part of large guilds who are actively creating groups of people to dedicate their time and effort into researching these new systems the minute they receive information (May 11th at the latest). Again this is only true if the system is as significant as some are claiming, this whole rhythmic combat + combo system could just simply be giving things global cool-downs and giving abilities bonus effects when used in conjunction with their stance skills. (This seems unlikely)


    Ultimately it isn't the size of the changes that are important, it is the relative size of the changes. In other words, how big are these changes in the grand scheme of things? Changes to combat in a combat driven game will always be felt, no matter how small they are; however, players with more experience with both the genre and the game in general will be able to adapt to these changes as they already know what to expect out of them. Of course we currently don't know what these changes entail; nevertheless, the experience of veteran players is not instantly invalidated due to these changes. Even if combat becomes almost unrecognizable from that of Bless JP, RU, and KR veteran players still have plenty of valid and useful knowledge about the other relatively unchanged systems.


    Arguing about the significance of change is pointless when we haven't even seen working footage of these new systems in comparison to what we have now. It is for the best for us to just sit back and wait to see what rhythmic combat entails before we start talking about how the collective database of all things Bless related were just thrown into an incinerator.


    To recap:

    • The combat system is being changed
    • These exact impact these changes will have is unknown
    • The exact scope of these changes are still unknown
    • The exact magnitude of these changes are still unknown
    • Veteran and common-sense knowledge and logic will still apply
    • It isn't the end of the world
    • Even if it is, many other systems are still unchanged and experienced players can freely share their knowledge regarding these.


    As for the OP themself, I am happy I was able to help out Perfson, if you have any questions feel free to ask. I will get to them as soon as I can.

    Congratulations!

    You just read another wall of text!:thumbup:


    Formatting may be strange for some time, it is hard to type with a broken wrist...

  • The only thing I'm debating is being told in so many words, that I'm wrong; when I've been repeating what we know from the devs' own mouths. Plus, you say the scope/magnitude re unknown, when in-fact they are known, this is a ground up redesign of the combat and skill system, the UI is revamped, questing is ravamped, mobs revamped, new tutorial zone and guide quests, party buffs...so many new and redesigned things. Sure the classes will be the same at the core: dps/tank/heals and melee/ranged; the way they work, in this "new" version of Bless are going to be different than what the veteran players of KR/JP know and are used to. The scope the devs are going for is "we want this to be a new game". Kind of hard to miss. You are right that we really don't know what it will actually be like until we see / experience it. But you can't just ignore what information is already out there about the Steam release and base it on the previous versions, when this is very different.

  • If you don't like the so many words those can go. I create long posts in an attempt to show respect to all involved, they show engagement and understanding of the topics at hand and typically receive positive responses from those who take the time to read them.


    To keep this short, I'm not calling the combat changes small, I am saying how they will impact the game as a whole are unknown and that these changes do not invalidate the knowledge of players who have spent hundreds of hours playing Bless before. Saying that the changes are known is correct, but it is incorrect to state that existing knowledge is invalidated due to these new systems. In fact many of these new systems don't change anything in a significant manner.

    • Party Buffs: Group up to receive buff. Cool, the late game was already unsoloable as it stands in KR and JP, now it is better to get into groups early, doesn't invalidate the advice and knowledge of veteran players.
    • Tutorial: Good for new players, does very little for returning players.
    • UI: Only changes to the UI are those that are coming in the combat revamp. Everything else seems to be the same and intuitive, no major changes here.
    • Revamped Questing: Sadly to say but this won't matter. Unless other parts of the game are also changed (and it doesn't seem they will be) quests are mostly dismissal and will be skipped over in favor for other content and many veteran players will continue to say the same thing.
    • Revamped guide quests: Again, doesn't impact the knowledge of veteran players at all.

    All of this points to one thing I have been saying this entire time. As things currently stand all information veteran players have about the game that doesn't delve into combat specific advice can be considered accurate as other parts of the game are not being changed in any meaningful way. There is a difference between the size, magnitude, and scope of changes. A large change to one system won't necessarily bleed into other aspects of the game.


    Again, I'm not trying to disprove or stop the practice of giving up to date information regarding the state of the rebuild project, you just can't assume that these changes invalidate the collective knowledge of everybody else, especially when it comes to something as general as "what class should I play". The big problem Pentrep and myself seem to be having with your claim is just how general it is. Yes change is coming, yes it will inevitably, well... change things, but these changes don't inherently falsify all the information veteran players have. Especially information regarding systems that are not being directly changed and the generalization of common knowledge.

    Congratulations!

    You just read another wall of text!:thumbup:


    Formatting may be strange for some time, it is hard to type with a broken wrist...

  • Adversting (Guests only)

  • First of all, you're right about the class stuff...I should have addressed the OP's questions directly BUT I maintain my first response. There are core changes that will make the game different, the devs have said so, and I've said repeatedly (and been told I'm wrong).

    Second, I've never said that what veteran players know won't help, however my responses all come when someone asks a question about the steam version, then one of those "veterans" states information from JP/KR versions. Then I come in with the information we know about the steam version, THEN I'm told that I'm wrong.

    So, when the person who is making the new version of the game says that it's going to be a "different experience" and "we want players to experience something new", then what you know about what you've played in the version of the game they are trying to fix, just went out the window. Of course we all know how the heck MMORPG's work, and what to expect in a nutshell, I've never disputed that. But specifically with Bless Online, jumping from JP/KR to Steam will be different.


  • The only thing I'm debating is being told in so many words, that I'm wrong; when I've been repeating what we know from the devs' own mouths. Plus, you say the scope/magnitude re unknown, when in-fact they are known, this is a ground up redesign of the combat and skill system, the UI is revamped, questing is ravamped, mobs revamped, new tutorial zone and guide quests, party buffs...so many new and redesigned things. Sure the classes will be the same at the core: dps/tank/heals and melee/ranged; the way they work, in this "new" version of Bless are going to be different than what the veteran players of KR/JP know and are used to. The scope the devs are going for is "we want this to be a new game". Kind of hard to miss. You are right that we really don't know what it will actually be like until we see / experience it. But you can't just ignore what information is already out there about the Steam release and base it on the previous versions, when this is very different.

    The bottom line is we don't have hard evidence as to what will change or how much anything will change. We know that it will change, great, I am all for change especially considering how much this game has struggled. But one thing MMO's have taught me is to never expect too much. Do not forget that Neowiz has already changed this game once, and those changes were minor at best. Sure, they were well received but it was too little too late for the KR version. Do you think they sold it as a little change? No. This is all about marketing. They can't sell anything as minor. They know the game had difficulties in the past but the fact they want to change the game does not discount any of the previous versions. You can expect a very similar game to what JP has, at least initially. They would be better off presenting it at face value then change the game in direct response to the communities wishes. Because right now, guess whose input they are listening to? The Japanese communities. Neowiz can learn a lot from how both SE and ESO have changed their games. Both games had very rocky starts and are now considered successful. The model was very simple once the original idea failed: let the players play version 1.0, then respond to their criticism and build upon it.

  • Here goes an attempt.


    Forums are a great place where people with varying experiences come together and discuss a number of things. Coming from a variety of places and having different experiences offers some unique perspectives when something worth discussing presents itself. The unique journey an individual has throughout their life may have a number of high and lows, lessons learned, challenges to ones beliefs or reaffirmations of it, and maybe some regrets.


    Now, regarding information straight from the source. Maybe I've aged, maybe I've grown more pessimistic, maybe I'm just going senile or insane. There have been many a lives I've lived in these games where I have witnessed what I have and they have molded me into who I am today. Games that were great and then lost that magic. Promises that were made and then couldn't quite come to fruition. Blatant and boldface lies of deception and arrogance. I would love to just be able to take what was told at face value and leave it at that, but I simply no longer can. I can only ever see anything from the source as a guide post in a sea of doubt and based on what I know I can try to envision what the truth will end up being. By expanding my knowledge, being open minded, learning from others, and discussing possibilities I can improve my figurative vision and come to a satisfactory answer for myself so I can make a sound decision.


    From what I've seen people with experience offer a great perspective. Neowiz and Bless have a lot of history and there's a lot already out there. This company has been around for a while and they've done stuff and have a reputation. This game has been out in various forms for years and there's content along with changes that we can observe. This isn't a brand new company with a brand new game. This abundant wealth of "stuff" is out there and it is because that exists we are able to make a more educated deduction to more specific points. If I knew more about this I would certainly love to add to the conversation, but I haven't really played their game and I haven't really been reading the news about the company.


    We can continue to speculate all we want in the mean-time and there is nothing wrong with that. On May 11th we will certainly learn a lot of important facts and can continue to speculate along with confirming certain details. Even then, a possibly heavily controlled and gated PR event with rose covered lens can only truly reveal so much. Only when I get to log into the server and see with my own eyes can I truly know.


    I tried to keep it short. Sorry.


    Signed with love and peace,

    Kuz

  • Nothing is wrong with being realistic. There are plenty of developers who break promises in order to meet deadlines, or whatever other excuses they come up with. But in the long run it hurts them more than it helps them. We will have to wait and see what promises Neowiz delivers on and which ones they don't.

  • My question about classes would be about the seemingly small amount of classes.

    We will have 5 classes at launch. But it appears each class fills a particular role... Does anyone know if these classes would have different "specs" so they could do different roles or play differently from one another?

    As i understand it .....

    Guardian = Tank

    Beserker = Melee Dps

    Ranger = Ranged Dps

    Mage = Caster Dps

    Paladin = Healer

    I'm hoping that there are different ways to play them as i feel this is not nearly enough variety in classes. If you wanna be a ranged dps then you have to be a ranger which means every ranged dps will be one and so on with the rest of the classes.

    The game has me excited but this part has me a bit nervous.

  • Adversting (Guests only)