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Why The Combat Overhaul Might Be Pretty Big! (Might include Skill Tree Revamp)

    • Why The Combat Overhaul Might Be Pretty Big! (Might include Skill Tree Revamp)

      In this video I explain the reasons I believe the Combat Overhaul might be pretty big, and why it will probably include at least a minor skill tree revamp. I also talk about the move to B2P, and why I feel it was an important gesture from the team.

      Check it out, and let me know what you think! Do you think the changes will be big? And will B2P ultimately prove an important decision by Neowiz?
    • Hey @Izkimar, great video!

      You brought some pretty interesting points to the table in your video and I'm glad that I've watched it. I made a thread yesterday talking about the interview between MMORPG.com and I added a second interview that was conducted on the same day by mmogames.com - You should give the second one a look and provide more of your thoughts on the thread there! I'd love to hear them!
      "Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
      - John Donne
    • Skaldas wrote:

      Hey @Izkimar, great video!

      You brought some pretty interesting points to the table in your video and I'm glad that I've watched it. I made a thread yesterday talking about the interview between MMORPG.com and I added a second interview that was conducted on the same day by mmogames.com - You should give the second one a look and provide more of your thoughts on the thread there! I'd love to hear them!
      Thanks! I'm glad it provided some insight! I will definitely check out your thread and leave my thoughts!
    • @StonyBiosphere While I agree it will hurt to not have Assassin, especially in PvP where they provided wonderful utility and support. If it is because the changes are big enough, then I can be happy with that.

      Also, if the game were to launch in it's current state. Assassin is completely broken in PvP, and makes the game really unhealthy atm.
    • @Skaldas thanks so much for posting that, your 2nd interview was even better evidence confirming my thoughts than the MMORPG one!

      Here are the two highlights confirming what I've been suspecting for Bless EA!


      "One of the chief factors that saw Bless delayed was issues with the game’s combat. Do you believe this has been appropriately fixed now?

      We’re working towards it for EA, and we think that already major strides have already been made towards that goal. However, we’re still working on some aspects (these changes include the reworks of the Mystic and Assassin classes’ combat and balance tests). We hope to get some great feedback about the combat system during EA as well."


      "The classes of Bless Online appear to fit into some expected fantasy archetypes (ranger, paladin, etc). What sort of things will make them unique to similar classes?

      The reworked skill system that will allow players of all classes to build on and modify their class skills to fit their own play style will make each class experience feel unique."
    • Great video thanks for sharing. We can definitely at least expect to see what they did in Japan. Initially Combat was a huge issue in KR as it was slow and clunky. Even now it isn't terribly ground breaking or new. I think you can expect Combat to develop throughout EA. I wouldn't expect a huge change since it's so close to release. But you can definitely expect something by official release.
    • Pentrep wrote:

      Great video thanks for sharing. We can definitely at least expect to see what they did in Japan. Initially Combat was a huge issue in KR as it was slow and clunky. Even now it isn't terribly ground breaking or new. I think you can expect Combat to develop throughout EA. I wouldn't expect a huge change since it's so close to release. But you can definitely expect something by official release.
      Thank you, glad you enjoyed it! As far as the changes go the wording in every interview, and now the latest ones is too strong for it to be a very little change imo. Also, the fact that they removed Assassin points to this. As you said it's so close to release, and are you really going to remove one of the most popular classes that was already in the game if changes were minor? Would you also remove it over balance issues? I don't think so, a lot of Assassin's problems were loaded in 1 or 2 skills, and Power Scaling issues in general.
    • Pretty decent Vid Izkimar. Made enough points.
      Personally: I think you should've made your own
      points & such regardless of NeoWiz's Spoilers. LoL
      We can all do better & work faster together!
    • SLiver wrote:

      Pretty decent Vid Izkimar. Made enough points.
      Personally: I think you should've made your own
      points & such regardless of NeoWiz's Spoilers. LoL
      Thanks a lot! I was thinking about it, but felt I'd be looking the fool if I was drawing all this speculation together. And then everyone would be like it's already been revealed you ass hat! Lol
    • I also agree with your arguments in your video

      Burst classes are often difficult to balance.

      If the burst is too important, it's not good
      But if the other classes are too "tanky", it makes the assassin burst useless
      The survival of the assassin is not obvious either to balance (on the JP, the assassin has a lot of iframe skills)

      Similarly hybrid classes (mystic) are also difficult to balance ... find the middle way between support / heal / dps without becoming OP

      May be the new combat system is too faster for assassin gameplay

      Hope they will repair them quickly
    • I also think the combat changes might be bigger than we think.
      However, I don't want to raise the expectations too high, because:

      1 - We didn't get any proof that the new combat system is that big;
      2 - Almost all classes have been removed to be reworked, so the Assassin's case is not unique;
      3 - They say we will "now" be able to change the way we play a character, even if it's of the same class and have the same equipment. But we already have that on Rebuild...

      I don't want to say "the new combat system will be bad, blah blah blah", I just want to point out that the new system might not be as big as some think it is.
      We must not spread fake news about a new amazing combat system, but if it ends up being amazing, I will for sure be one of the firsts enjoying it.



      The combat system for Bless that would be perfect for me would be:

      - Physically dodgeable attacks from mobs and players
      - More animations for creatures' attacks and movement (right now they just instantly rotate instead of having an animation)
      - Free aim for Action mode
      - Synergy between classes' abilites [?] (ex: two mages casting a bigger version of a skill, a mage and a mystic helping each other by sharing some mana, multiples rangers making a large scale arrow rain, a guardian/paladin combo that can share damage and taunt, etc.)
      - Generally more mobility, with skills and/or making moving not cancelling a casting

      However that combat system would probably never happen in Bless.
      But I still enjoy the game quite a lot.
    • Estekiwi wrote:

      I also agree with your arguments in your video

      Burst classes are often difficult to balance.

      If the burst is too important, it's not good
      But if the other classes are too "tanky", it makes the assassin burst useless
      The survival of the assassin is not obvious either to balance (on the JP, the assassin has a lot of iframe skills)

      Similarly hybrid classes (mystic) are also difficult to balance ... find the middle way between support / heal / dps without becoming OP

      May be the new combat system is too faster for assassin gameplay

      Hope they will repair them quickly
      I think Assassin could actually be balanced pretty easily, some of their major issues were wrapped in 1 or 2 abilities. For example, Shadow Cut is a targeted teleport that only requires one combo point. This skill hits your enemy twice, and if you use the build that makes your opener crit both hits will crit. This skill is meant to be a utility with some dmg tied to it, instead it is their 2nd hardest hitting ability with 0 setup required. They just Shadow Cut and 80% HP is missing. Nerfing this alone could have put Sin in a much better place.
    • QcDiablo wrote:

      I also think the combat changes might be bigger than we think.
      However, I don't want to raise the expectations too high, because:

      1 - We didn't get any proof that the new combat system is that big;
      2 - Almost all classes have been removed to be reworked, so the Assassin's case is not unique;
      3 - They say we will "now" be able to change the way we play a character, even if it's of the same class and have the same equipment. But we already have that on Rebuild...

      I don't want to say "the new combat system will be bad, blah blah blah", I just want to point out that the new system might not be as big as some think it is.
      We must not spread fake news about a new amazing combat system, but if it ends up being amazing, I will for sure be one of the firsts enjoying it.



      The combat system for Bless that would be perfect for me would be:

      - Physically dodgeable attacks from mobs and players
      - More animations for creatures' attacks and movement (right now they just instantly rotate instead of having an animation)
      - Free aim for Action mode
      - Synergy between classes' abilites [?] (ex: two mages casting a bigger version of a skill, a mage and a mystic helping each other by sharing some mana, multiples rangers making a large scale arrow rain, a guardian/paladin combo that can share damage and taunt, etc.)
      - Generally more mobility, with skills and/or making moving not cancelling a casting

      However that combat system would probably never happen in Bless.
      But I still enjoy the game quite a lot.
      Actually, Assassin was one of the earlier classes to be reworked has been in the rebuild for along while now, and is now being removed again. This is a completely unique case for any of the classes.

      Also, I wouldn't say it's fake news because when you read each interview, especially the later ones it is pretty much certain we are gonna see some changes. For example, one of the things they have said a lot is the old system didn't have much ways to change individual abilities, and that you just dumped points into them. Well I don't think the point system existed on old Korea, and was introduced on Rebuild. Even if it did exist in the old version, what they are saying is we are getting something different than that. So it is easy to draw the conclusion the Skill Tree will see a revamp of some sort.

      I agree with most of your suggestions for possible changes though. However, like you I don't think they will be that tilted towards action combat. Especially free form aim. If you have free form aim, you basically have to remove the old Tab Target system, because it will be superior to the aim system as far as reliability. And you would have to re-design a lot of skills.
    • Izkimar wrote:

      In this video I explain the reasons I believe the Combat Overhaul might be pretty big, and why it will probably include at least a minor skill tree revamp. I also talk about the move to B2P, and why I feel it was an important gesture from the team.

      Check it out, and let me know what you think! Do you think the changes will be big? And will B2P ultimately prove an important decision by Neowiz?
      Great video bro, pretty clear.

      I think the improvements in the skill system were very good for rebuild and Jp. Don't know if they will improve that a lot more, cause it was a big change from the old system but who knows. I totally agree that we should be able to change the skill point all the time we'd like, so that could be a good change.

      About combat system itself, it would be great that it will have a big and good change. I don't really have my hopes too high cause let's face it, for rebuild project they announced changes in the combat system and they just fast it up a little. Mystics from RU were rebuilt and never been released in rebuild project and JP probably for only those changes so I'm not sure if assassin is been rebuilt because of big or small changes, but despite that is good that they rebuild him cause it was kinda a week class and a lot of people love playing assassins.

      I agree and also hope that the b2p model fix some cash shop issues, especially the pet's reset/regrade skill system issue that is p2w in japan (for pvp at least). And also let the free changes in skill points.

      Looking for your next videos :)
    • Sarcastic wrote:

      Great video bro, pretty clear.
      I think the improvements in the skill system were very good for rebuild and Jp. Don't know if they will improve that a lot more, cause it was a big change from the old system but who knows. I totally agree that we should be able to change the skill point all the time we'd like, so that could be a good change.

      About combat system itself, it would be great that it will have a big and good change. I don't really have my hopes too high cause let's face it, for rebuild project they announced changes in the combat system and they just fast it up a little. Mystics from RU were rebuilt and never been released in rebuild project and JP probably for only those changes so I'm not sure if assassin is been rebuilt because of big or small changes, but despite that is good that they rebuild him cause it was kinda a week class and a lot of people love playing assassins.

      I agree and also hope that the b2p model fix some cash shop issues, especially the pet's reset/regrade skill system issue that is p2w in japan (for pvp at least). And also let the free changes in skill points.

      Looking for your next videos :)
      Thanks so much! I'm thinking the skill system will be reworked because they said it will be more than just putting points into abilities like on Rebuild, though we shall see! I'm hoping it is, because I would actually rather see improvements there rather than combat.

      As far as combat goes, I just hope for a few more action elements but still more of a hybrid/classic system. I like the tactical elements of the older MMO system mixed with some of the speed and "good" twitch elements of action combat.

      As far as Assassin goes, it's actually either A.) The changes were so big Assassin didn't fit the new paradigm and is taking more time to adjust, or B.) They are just having an extreme difficulty balancing it. I don't think it would be the latter, because I doubt an MMO dev would withdraw such a popular class over balance issues. Especially, since it has already been reworked.

      Assassin contrary to what a lot of people believe, is actually INSANELY strong! It is the most strong class currently in the game. It is heads and shoulders above everything else. There are some major balance issues with it based on a couple skills, and also because Damage is just out of control in general right now on JPN.
    • Izkimar wrote:

      Thanks so much! I'm thinking the skill system will be reworked because they said it will be more than just putting points into abilities like on Rebuild, though we shall see! I'm hoping it is, because I would actually rather see improvements there rather than combat.
      As far as combat goes, I just hope for a few more action elements but still more of a hybrid/classic system. I like the tactical elements of the older MMO system mixed with some of the speed and "good" twitch elements of action combat.

      As far as Assassin goes, it's actually either A.) The changes were so big Assassin didn't fit the new paradigm and is taking more time to adjust, or B.) They are just having an extreme difficulty balancing it. I don't think it would be the latter, because I doubt an MMO dev would withdraw such a popular class over balance issues. Especially, since it has already been reworked.

      Assassin contrary to what a lot of people believe, is actually INSANELY strong! It is the most strong class currently in the game. It is heads and shoulders above everything else. There are some major balance issues with it based on a couple skills, and also because Damage is just out of control in general right now on JPN.
      My assumption is that assassin didn't work as they had planned. It's better that they take it out and fix it rather than release it unpolished. I can't imagine it would be too far down the line before they re-release it. It isn't like warlock where it's something that was never put into the game and only existed in the game data.
    • Pentrep wrote:

      My assumption is that assassin didn't work as they had planned. It's better that they take it out and fix it rather than release it unpolished. I can't imagine it would be too far down the line before they re-release it. It isn't like warlock where it's something that was never put into the game and only existed in the game data.
      You might be right. Though my opinion is that it had to be more than that. Because, Assassin actually worked pretty damn well, and had some of the most fun and unique PvP toolsets. However, it still is possible it didn't fit Neowiz's vision and they decided to further rework it. Though, I still think that's a tough sell, since taking out one of the most popular MMO classes just before soft launch is very risky.
    • Izkimar wrote:

      Pentrep wrote:

      My assumption is that assassin didn't work as they had planned. It's better that they take it out and fix it rather than release it unpolished. I can't imagine it would be too far down the line before they re-release it. It isn't like warlock where it's something that was never put into the game and only existed in the game data.
      You might be right. Though my opinion is that it had to be more than that. Because, Assassin actually worked pretty damn well, and had some of the most fun and unique PvP toolsets. However, it still is possible it didn't fit Neowiz's vision and they decided to further rework it. Though, I still think that's a tough sell, since taking out one of the most popular MMO classes just before soft launch is very risky.
      I never played it so I don't know for sure, was just making an educated guess. How does Bless' assassin compare in utility to some other known games that have them, like WoW or FFXIV?
    • Izkimar wrote:

      Pentrep wrote:

      My assumption is that assassin didn't work as they had planned. It's better that they take it out and fix it rather than release it unpolished. I can't imagine it would be too far down the line before they re-release it. It isn't like warlock where it's something that was never put into the game and only existed in the game data.
      You might be right. Though my opinion is that it had to be more than that. Because, Assassin actually worked pretty damn well, and had some of the most fun and unique PvP toolsets. However, it still is possible it didn't fit Neowiz's vision and they decided to further rework it. Though, I still think that's a tough sell, since taking out one of the most popular MMO classes just before soft launch is very risky.
      Assassin is clearly abused on JP

      This is the only class in pvp that has such a big burst with only 3 (or 4) dmg skills (including auto-attack) and the rest in utility / survival skills

      The classe was broken before the game combat changes
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