Open world pvp

BarelyLegal · May 9th 2016, 1:46am

So...totally new here...sorry if this has been asked...but, can someone explain the pvp system...I'm not finding info.

1. How will arenas work
2. Open world...how limited is it..is it purely open...meaning I hate you and I want to kill you so I can...or ??
3. Any siege system, if so is it Lineage style where just a siege every set time, or is it true ownership like darkfall?

Thanks All!!

Bryan Fury · May 9th 2016, 2:41am

1) Can't say preciselly, i hate arena, because i consider them a carebear thing.

2) Fully open (except some specified areas and some territory with SPECIAL STATUS that will change depending on the war status on this territory) like Lineage 2 with 2 realms like DAOC.

3) Yep, there are sieges, but they need to be polished. There will be also territory wars and fortress wars, but it's a bit early to say. Up to now there is a very nice Realm war area that can store 100 players against 100 players with a "ipotetical moba style" rule set.

Zazaaji · May 9th 2016, 5:14am

Bryan Fury wrote:

i hate arena, because i consider them a carebear thing.

As I said before, I'm a "carebear" according to you. I don't care being called it either. Arena PvP is alright to me, but I despise Open World PvP entirely.
Seriously though, you're a moderator. Could you please stop using such potentially insulting terms? It can rub off very badly on some members.

That being said my point to the OP is: The Open World PvP is not as unforgiving as Lineage 2 or the like. If you're someone like me that doesn't like Open World PvP, this game is still very enjoyable, despite often being forced PvP at level 30+.

Zakarosh · May 9th 2016, 12:03pm

How is the arena a carebear thing? Ppls avoiding pvp would avoid an arena as well o o

About open pvp, I'm now not worried about it. Real pvp'ers will focus in enhance their characters for the wars, and gankers will find some hard stones on their backs when trying to hunt "easy preys".

The 100vs100 war sounds really nice, the kind of battles I like to see. Sieges? Yes, thank you!

Nito · May 9th 2016, 5:27pm

well for clarification:

the 100 vs 100 war is basically a scheduled battleground called "Siege of Strasbourg"

It is said or hinted that real Sieges (Fort, Fortress, Castle Sieges in order to win over territories) are coming sooner or later.

The Open PvP is basically this:

- Play like you want - if you want to kill someone, you can stalk him through the whole map.
- If you get killed you won't lose EXP, durability or gear (no corpse looting)
- If you get killed you have three options:

you pay gems and resurrect instantly right on the spot (CD is 60 mins - or 30 but I think 60).
you run to your corpse and resurrect when you are near your corpse without any death penality
you resurrect near a special npc which will give you a death penalty/debuff - which you can counter with a cash shop item. (I think the duration is 5 mins... or 10)

- right from the bat the pvp situation is concentrated around dungeon entrances and basel gorge, high lvl grinding spots and some gathering spots as well as around good looking pets.

BarelyLegal · May 10th 2016, 9:37pm

Thanks to all...sounds good...and this is aim to shoot correct? Any guild warring actually keeping scores, etc?

BarelyLegal · May 10th 2016, 9:40pm

No need to answer anymore questions...just saw that this was a tab target game...gg.

Zazaaji · May 10th 2016, 10:06pm

BarelyLegal wrote:

No need to answer anymore questions...just saw that this was a tab target game...gg.

Incorrect.
There are 3 control methods:
Tab-Target Hotkey, Mouse PNC, and Tera-like action controls. You can change them in the Options menu.

Erry · May 11th 2016, 12:15pm

Bryan Fury wrote:

Zazaaji wrote:

Bryan Fury wrote:

i hate arena, because i consider them a carebear thing.

As I said before, I'm a "carebear" according to you. I don't care being called it either. Arena PvP is alright to me, but I despise Open World PvP entirely.
Seriously though, you're a moderator. Could you please stop using such potentially insulting terms? It can rub off very badly on some members.

Arena are for carebear that can't handle the thrilling of the unknow in a real war with not equal numbers and powers and that can't use a strategy to climb off victoursly or at least try to give a really hard time to their enemies.

That is a fact, and being or not a moderator behind the role there is a person that think that way. Green or not, the fact doesn't change.

If you like arena, it's well for you, but i don't. I tought to have made clear my point a lot of time ago even with you Zaz, but it seems you still don't get it... in fact, if i remember well, Neviana even explained my words to you, since you wasn't going to catch with what i wanted to say...

Ah actually you are wrong, or maybe nobody is wrong because this is a subjective issue.

But I for one, see people who despise arena as carebears. That is if the game is properly balanced.
Arena PvP is usually where the hardcore, actual pvpers go. It's a test of skill rather than a potion/pet/mount/outnumbering etc. etc. which could lead to unfair advantage.

People who play games for PvP but not go in arenas are obviously people who know they are not good enough to actually win with fair conditions. Arena is where skill actually matters. And who are you if you are afraid of people being better than you and losing? That's right, a carebear

And yea you do seem to be a bit opinionated for a mod. Also carebear is considered as almost an insult. And generalizing people into groups and calling them carebears as moderator? Lol mate what the hell.

Fenrir · May 11th 2016, 1:56pm

i'll go a bit off-topic, but the thread got its answers already anyway.

There are 3 control methods:Tab-Target Hotkey, Mouse PNC, and Tera-like action controls. You can change them in the Options menu.

regarding Tera-like targeting: is it full free-aim mode with no target lock( wich is probably the best/most reliable targeting method for action combat ), or is it an hybrid free-aim/tab-target like Blade&Soul?
if it's the latter, then it's kind of disappointing, because in that case when there's 2 or more enemies near each other, the target itself usually bounces back and forth between them, making effective skills usage a total mess since you can't always focus on one single enemy that way.
at that point, it would be more reliable to just stay on traditional tab-targeting settings in order to avoid issues with some random target switch.
on the other hand, if there's no hybrid tab-targeting and it's full free-aim, then it's more than welcome.
it may look a bit harder to use at first compared to tab-targeting, since you won't have your enemy always under aim, but it's way more comfortable to use and makes the overall gameplay less boring.

as for the PvP argument: the "carebear" term isn't even related to PvP directly, because it's a term used to define players that like to mostly/only do PvE related content.

by personal experience over a decade of mmorpgs, i can say that most of the players that play games mainly for PvP and that likes competition along with fair fights, will always prefer to do PvP arenas rather than world PvP. the reasons are the following:

world PvP
[pros]
- easier to team up with people for backup during small-scale or mass-pvp situations;
- chance of being able to ambush the enemy with pre-emptive strikes;
- many areas available for PvP, wich can make the gameplay less dull due to variety of environment, and you can always encounter new enemies on the way.
[cons]
- when people start to team up with each other a bit too much, group PvP usually becomes zerg PvP, wich in the end it's all about numbers rather than real tactics or player skills involved. that's also why people that are not very good at PvP usually tend to team up with others, wich is normal and there's nothing to be ashamed of.
however, people should not forget that it's always better to train for a while in order to learn how to play a class properly, rather than always teaming up with other people when they're not able to deal with single enemies.
that's also the main reason why people that like fair fights don't do world PvP much, and when they do it they usually try to find other organized groups for small-scale group PvP in less populated areas to avoid interruptions from zergs.
- just as you're able to ambush someone, there's good chances you'll get ambushed as well;
- solo players will most of the times get ganked by other groups of people, with very few or no chances at all to fight back properly, wich is exactly why people tend to team up in world PvP. basicly it's a vicious cycle, leading to zerg battles eventually.

arena PvP
[pros]
- you'll start by knowing that you're about to have a fight, so there's no chances of getting ambushed;
- arenas have their own amount of players joining a match, so there won't be any interruptions from external sources;
- you may be able to choose from solo PvP to group PvP, for those that like to show their worth in solo battles, or that prefer to cooperate with friends in team battles.
[cons]
- not much variety of environment, wich may become boring after a while for some people;
- joining group PvP with random people may end up in a lot of frustration if those randoms don't know what they're doing or how to play properly.

that's pretty much all i've seen so far in many mmorpgs.

Bryan Fury · May 11th 2016, 2:24pm

Erry wrote:

Ah actually you are wrong, or maybe nobody is wrong because this is a subjective issue.

But I for one, see people who despise arena as carebears. That is if the game is properly balanced.
Arena PvP is usually where the hardcore, actual pvpers go. It's a test of skill rather than a potion/pet/mount/outnumbering etc. etc. which could lead to unfair advantage.

People who play games for PvP but not go in arenas are obviously people who know they are not good enough to actually win with fair conditions. Arena is where skill actually matters. And who are you if you are afraid of people being better than you and losing? That's right, a carebear

I'm old enough, i have played enough mmorpg and i have enough experience on my shoulders to know what is the TRUE PvP, don't worry, and Arenas ARE not true PvP. That is a fact that can't be changed.

After DAOC and L2 all the mmorpg that came out was all crap of games... and with Bless i can finally see a light in the almost neverending dark era of the carebear mmorpgs..

Erry wrote:

And yea you do seem to be a bit opinionated for a mod. Also carebear is considered as almost an insult. And generalizing people into groups and calling them carebears as moderator? Lol mate what the hell.

Be or not a moderator have nothing to do with personal opinions. Behind the role there is a HUMAN that have opinions and more.

I (as myself) do consider all the arena players to be carebear in mmorpg, game type that is supposed to be played MASSIVELLY and not with a DEFINITED environment 5v5. The true carebear is the one that is not able to handle more than the STANDARD environment. In the open PvP is where the true personal skills value. In the arena is just a matter of have more levels or more enchants than your enemies, where you know that you have a X specified number of enemies with the safety feeling that you wont have more enemies in front of you. Can't you handle more? Well i'm sorry, but i can.

In DAOC with my Paladin i was able to handle up 2 whole party of enemies due to my personal skills and experience (and it mean keep busy 16 players, since the party was of 8 players) and in L2 i was able to keep up busy almost a whole Clan (And i'm speaking about 40 players that try to catch you to avoid yourself be able to stop the enemy caster to take the castle) due to my strategy abilities and personal skills. Can you do the same?

Also, you know there are game designed for arena? MOBA! They are for that purpose.

Don't like what i think? Well, can't do nothing for it, but don't worry, i wont ban, delete, edit, whatever you or what you say, because that is a "battle" betwheen opinions of two people, and have nothing to do with moderation.

Fenrir wrote:

as for the PvP argument: the "carebear" term isn't even related to PvP directly, because it's a term used to define players that like to mostly/only do PvE related content.

You are wrong here, almost. It's true that it's for people that prefer to do PvE, but it has come as a term to identify those that in the ancient games (like DAOC) refuses the PvP features demanding PvE over it or a lock on some areas or a complete block of the PvP content. Also, Carebear is a term that is used with those people that want to play a PvE on a PvP focused game or for those that hide in the safe areas to avoid it.

Fenrir wrote:

by personal experience over a decade of mmorpgs, i can say that most of the players that play games mainly for PvP and that likes competition along with fair fights, will always prefer to do PvP arenas rather than world PvP. the reasons are the following

Do you have really played that much time? Because far i remember with DAOC and L2 it wasn't like that and be an "Arena Lover" would have mean to gain all the disrespect of all the players in the whole servers..

Dewulf · May 11th 2016, 3:56pm

There is no definition for "TRUE PVP", its only your opinion about it. Arena PvP is as true as world PvP, unless u have forgotten what PvP really means (player versus player).
Saying that arena pvp is "carebear pvp" is really stupid. In most PvP arenas all players are equal, means gear doesnt affect that much and its skill based. In world PvP its different, you can do PvP with someone who has A: Higher lvl than you, B: Better gear, where skill doesn't matter anymore. I would rather say that world PvP is more carebear since the people with better gear and higher levels can just gank people and that way they can avoid getting killed, since the enemy really can't do shit against someone who is so much better in terms of gear and lvl.

And "Massively" in MMORPG doesn't mean u have to do massive PvP only. Its term used for games that have LOTS OF PEOPLE playing the game. Now talking about hundreds and thousands of people in the same game playing different aspects of the game.

Bryan Fury · May 11th 2016, 4:18pm

Dewulf wrote:

In most PvP arenas all players are equal, means gear doesnt affect that much and its skill based.

Arena PvP is the one with equal gear and level? WHAT? That affermation is so damn wrong as the sun is a planet where you can live...

In Open PvP you can rely on a CLAN and on an ALLIANCE to make yourself usefull even if you are undergear and underlevel (obviously this does NOT mean that you are around naked or with -40 levels as difference), while in the arena you can't if you are NOT perfectly equal to the enemy team, and even 1 level less or a -1 enchant level is a big difference...

Dewulf wrote:

And "Massively" in MMORPG doesn't mean u have to do massive PvP only. Its term used for games that have LOTS OF PEOPLE playing the game. Now talking about hundreds and thousands of people in the same game playing different aspects of the game.

MASSIVELLY is a term used for the THINGS you do ingame, not for the people that play.

Once a game is played "online" it's automatic that there are A LOT of people playing, and it became MULTIPLAYER and a multiplayer can be a Coop, a Team Based or even a 1.000.000 player slot game server (like mmorpg).

Dewulf · May 11th 2016, 4:35pm

Bryan Fury wrote:

Dewulf wrote:

In most PvP arenas all players are equal, means gear doesnt affect that much and its skill based.

Arena PvP is the one with equal gear and level? WHAT? That affermation is so damn wrong as the sun is a planet where you can live...

In Open PvP you can rely on a CLAN and on an ALLIANCE to make yourself usefull even if you are undergear and underlevel (obviously this does NOT mean that you are around naked or with -40 levels as difference), while in the arena you can't if you are NOT perfectly equal to the enemy team, and even 1 level less or a -1 enchant level is a big difference...

In most games it is equal yes. Blade and Soul is good example of that. Mass PvP cannot never be equal, never. You cannot limit how many players there can be in the same raid or area and u cannot limit the gear of the players. Archeage is good example of unbalanced open pvp. So for example, if your friend gets ganked by some high lvl dude all the time and then u bring 4 people to help him that are high lvl, its gonna be 1 vs 5. Then the enemy calls his 6 friends and its then gonna be 7 vs 5. Its never gonna be equal and fair because u cannot limit the numbers of players that can join the fight.

Bryan Fury · May 11th 2016, 4:39pm

Dewulf wrote:

So for example, if your friend gets ganked by some high lvl dude all the time and then u bring 4 people to help him that are high lvl, its gonna be 1 vs 5. Then the enemy calls his 6 friends and its then gonna be 7 vs 5. Its never gonna be equal and fair because u cannot limit the numbers of players that can join the fight.

That happen in EVERY PvP game, and that is where the beauty of a PvP game lay, because that is the way on how a massive war start (that often will lead to a war declaration and a great journey of win and losses).

BUT, that is the reason because there are feature like Clan and Alliances in the game... because the game is based on the WAR, and a simple gank will mean a big war between Clans at first and then alliances..

Since you seems so surprised about it... i have to guess.. you are another one that never played DAOC and L2...

Oh... the good old days with DAOC and L2 open wars... sigh.. T.T

Dewulf · May 11th 2016, 4:49pm

Bryan Fury wrote:

Dewulf wrote:

So for example, if your friend gets ganked by some high lvl dude all the time and then u bring 4 people to help him that are high lvl, its gonna be 1 vs 5. Then the enemy calls his 6 friends and its then gonna be 7 vs 5. Its never gonna be equal and fair because u cannot limit the numbers of players that can join the fight.

That happen in EVERY PvP game, and that is where the beauty of a PvP game lay, because that is the way on how a massive war start (that often will lead to a war declaration and a great journey of win and losses).

BUT, that is the reason because there are feature like Clan and Alliances in the game... because the game is based on the WAR, and a simple gank will mean a big war between Clans at first and then alliances..

Since you seems so surprised about it... i have to guess.. you are another one that never played DAOC and L2...

Oh... the good old days with DAOC and L2 open wars... sigh.. T.T

DAOC and L2 are not the only mass pvp games :D.

I have led navy, land and siege raids in Archeage and done lots of zerg pvp in Guild Wars 2 and Age of Conan. Also Warhammer Online is really good mass rvr game that I have played for years now since Return of Reckoning (private server) is live and running. I never said that I don't like the unbalanced mass pvp, as someone who played Archeage for long time, I have lots of experience of that. You just cannot change the fact that is always unbalanced and never equal.And If you have played Bless, u know its not only based on mass pvp. The only mass pvp happens in siege and castle fights currently.

Bryan Fury · May 11th 2016, 4:55pm

Dewulf wrote:

DAOC and L2 are not the only mass pvp games :D.

I have led navy, land and siege raids in Archeage and done lots of zerg pvp in Guild Wars 2 and Age of Conan. Also Warhammer Online is really good mass rvr game that I have played for years now since Return of Reckoning (private server) is live and running. I never said that I don't like the unbalanced mass pvp, as someone who played Archeage for long time, I have lots of experience of that. You just cannot change the fact that is always unbalanced and never equal.And If you have played Bless, u know its not only based on mass pvp. The only mass pvp happens in siege and castle fights currently.

You played a so damn complicated game like AoC and you are not supporting me? BAD! You are a bad PvP player! *seek out the flail enchanted on "+9999 Pain"* Come here you damn Dewulf PvP traitor!

Erry · May 12th 2016, 2:38pm

Bryan Fury wrote:

In the open PvP is where the true personal skills value. In the arena is just a matter of have more levels or more enchants than your enemies, where you know that you have a X specified number of enemies with the safety feeling that you wont have more enemies in front of you. Can't you handle more? Well i'm sorry, but i can.

Have you even played any actual MMORPGs? Because this statement cannot be more wrong. There is little skill involved in mass PvP because that's exactly where more levels, enchants and numbers matter more than skill. In arena it's supposed to be equal. That meaning, equal in levels, gear and possibilities available to you. So in arena you cannot rely on more gear, more buffs or more healers backing your ass. In arena you can only rely on your personal skill.
Because in mass PvP it's all about who brings more people. Where is the skill in that? Care to explain?

I mean let's look at how people who do only mass pvp actually play. They usually don't even have proper keybinds, click abilities with mouse. Generally speaking now (as you love to do) mass PvPers usually don't have a very good knowledge of the game and it's systems. And that's because they don't need to, they rely on their group backing htem up, they CANNOT rely on themselves. Now this is an extreme example but people who do mass pvp are generally less skilled, less knowledgeable, and can't handle the game on their own without their group supporting them.

Fenrir · May 12th 2016, 2:38pm

looks like someone has very twisted and wrong ideas about the most common terms of gaming. and judging by these posts, i'm not even sure if it's worth replying.
just for this time, i'll do it for the sake of the discussion.

"Bryan Fury" wrote:

I'm old enough, i have played enough mmorpg and i have enough experience on my shoulders to know what is the TRUE PvP, don't worry, and Arenas ARE not true PvP. That is a fact that can't be changed.

that is NOT a fact, that is YOUR opinion. there's a difference between a real fact and what a person thinks.

if you don't like arenas because you prefer open world PvP, be it solo, group or zerg fights, that's your own choice.
the concept of "true PvP" itself is nonsense, simply because PvP can be anything that involves 2+ players fighting each other, be it open world, instanced arenas, or even duels.

if you prefer world PvP, where battles can becomes easily unbalanced due to more risks, that's your own choice.
i honestly can't be bothered to play 5 vs 30 for example, not because i can't handle it and eventually get some kill during the fight, but simply because there's no real challenge in there for me.
if i want to do world PvP, i do it for the sake of actually fighting other people, not to run around in circles with zergs chasing me.
and if i wanted to do mass PvP, i would probably rather go to do sieges, since at least there's usually a meaning in that, and there's actually tactics and strategies involved, unlike zerg battles.

"Bryan Fury" wrote:

In the open PvP is where the true personal skills value.

what value are you talking about exactly?
because as far as i know, ganking soloers with crap gear that are trying to lv up with a full group, or zerging small groups with an ally, has no value whatsoever except for being annoying and lame at the same time. and that was just one example out of many.

"Bryan Fury" wrote:

In the arena is just a matter of have more levels or more enchants than your enemies, where you know that you have a X specified number of enemies with the safety feeling that you wont have more enemies in front of you. Can't you handle more? Well i'm sorry, but i can.

first of all, it depends on the game.
there are games that are doing arenas in the right way, with equalized setups in order for players to have the same level, skills and gear(Tera, B&S).
then there are other games doing it horribly wrong, where in arenas what really matters is not player skills, but gear mostly(Aion, Lineage 2).

as for the rest, it's not about a "safety feeling" or not being able to handle the situation.
there's always plenty of people that are able to deal with any situation, be it outnumbered or not, but they choose to go PvP in arenas because they simply want to have fair fights without interruptions/aid from external sources. and that's pretty much all about it.
if you like ganking/zerging people with your own group/ally, that's your own choice.

"Bryan Fury" wrote:

in L2 i was able to keep up busy almost a whole Clan (And i'm speaking about 40 players that try to catch you to avoid yourself be able to stop the enemy caster to take the castle) due to my strategy abilities and personal skills. Can you do the same?

ahah, yeah, sure.
i've been playing Lineage 2 since chronicle 3, and considering that sieges were always for the 90% all about nukers, if you even dared to enter the crystal room alone with 40 people in front of you, you'd be probably rooted on sight at first, and then two/tri-shotted at best by mages and archers.
unless they were 40 bots, of course.

"Bryan Fury" wrote:

Do you have really played that much time? Because far i remember with DAOC and L2 it wasn't like that and be an "Arena Lover" would have mean to gain all the disrespect of all the players in the whole servers..

yeah right, because olympiads in lineage 2 totally aren't instanced arenas, where people enter everytime they're open in order to get items and hero status at the end of the month.
seriously, the more i read, the more i think you came here just for trolling.

"Bryan Fury" wrote:

Don't like what i think? Well, can't do nothing for it, but don't worry, i wont ban, delete, edit, whatever you or what you say, because that is a "battle" betwheen opinions of two people, and have nothing to do with moderation.

of course, you're always free to believe in what you want. in the end, i honestly couldn't care less.

i said what i had to say, and i won't bother to explain myself again.

Bryan Fury · May 12th 2016, 5:05pm

Fenrir wrote:

ahah, yeah, sure.
i've been playing Lineage 2 since chronicle 3, and considering that sieges were always for the 90% all about nukers, if you even dared to enter the crystal room alone with 40 people in front of you, you'd be probably rooted on sight at first, and then two/tri-shotted at best by mages and archers.
unless they were 40 bots, of course.

Think what you want, but i know what i have done, I'm a pretty famous player in L2 world (and a lot of players, Clans and Alliances know me and my wife so well in a lot of more games than DAOC and L2)... and my strategies/tactics skills made me what everyone know about me.. i don't need to defend myself about some random statement of no-faith.

Fenrir wrote:

yeah right, because olympiads in lineage 2 totally aren't instanced arenas, where people enter everytime they're open in order to get items and hero status at the end of the month.
seriously, the more i read, the more i think you came here just for trolling.

You are seriously talking about Oly to be a GOOD example of ARENA game? Really? And you claim to be a so experienced C3 player (btw I have played since Beta Prelude, so what now?)...

Oly was the most UNBALANCED shit you could have ever find out... and they was all the times organized battle to let your alliance members (including yourself if you where choosed) to win a specify role with set up rules to enter in and give out free points to those choosen to win the Hero status (or at least try to).

Don't talk about my L2 as you are so experienced, because you clearly are not.

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